Slam Dunk semifinal wrapup
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- December
- 28
Before I get to my thoughts on the games, I’ll tell you: I read every comment on the previous post and I appreciate each one. I think you all offered good potential matchups and made very intelligent points on the state of the girls bracket.
Timster, for instance, asked why the boys and girls draws don’t consist of an equal number of teams in this day and age of Title IX. Honestly, the same thought crossed my mind this afternoon as I drove to the County Center and I don’t know the answer. My guess, however, and it sounds like a pretty good reason, is that extra games would crowd the schedule.
I convinced myself of this and found it to be a fairly acceptable reason, but as I write this I’m having second thoughts. Yesterday, the County Center played host to two challenge games (one boys, one girls) and four boys games, all of them held 1:45 apart. Same today, except the girls semis replaced the challenge games. Conceivably, the Slam Dunk could have a full field for both, but games would have to begin at 9 a.m. and not end until after 11 p.m. Now, I may sound like aging producer Bob Ryan from Entourage here, but does that sound like something you might be interested in?
Let me know. It may be too much of an undertaking for the County Center. Maybe not. I don’t know either way, but it’s the only solution I have. Unfortunately, I have zero say in the matter.
Also, there was lots of displeasure spewed about the makeup of the girls draw. While I cannot, and will not, sit here and tell you which of this year’s teams should or should not have been included (because each is worthy in its own way), I will agree that the level of basketball is not as high as it could be. Some people contend that the girls don’t draw and to some extent it’s true. No girls game would match Stepinac-Peekskill of Wednesday night or White Plains-Peekskill championships of seasons past.
But just take the 2006 New Rochelle-Scarsdale Class AA semifinal for example. That was one of the most crowded games of championship week last winter and proved to me that the interest in the girls games is there provided the matchups are quality. The problem is, there are no girls teams like the Peekskill boys who organizers can throw in the field and know it’ll produce a big crowd. That makes a difference.
When I first learned the field, I called tournament organizer Lou DiMello. He told me Lourdes is the host school in the girls draw and that Ursuline has long been a participant. Pearl River and Minisink Valley were added because they were both strong teams. I asked him specifically about why White Plains wasn’t included despite winning back to back Section 1 titles and its status as the section’s top program. He told me WP never won this tournament the last two seasons  a true, albeit flawed point. In 2004, White Plains beat Lourdes in the semis, then lost to a Mount Vernon team that beat Maria Regina 69-20 in the other semi and would have beaten every team in this year’s field by 25 points or more. It then lost to St. John the Baptist last season, one of the best teams in the state. White Plains was not better than those teams, but no one in Section 1 was either.
But this isn’t about White Plains as much as it’s about getting compelling matchups. They’ll come if the girls field is expanded. Lakeland-White Plains would’ve been fun, but Haldane-Lourdes, North Rockland-Ursuline, or Pearl River-Albertus Magnus would’ve really added to the girls season.
Still, no matter the field, championships like tomorrow’s are unavoidable. Minisink and Pearl River have already played this season (Pearl River won in its own tournament championship earlier this month). It’s a great game for basketball lovers  Pearl River may be the best coached girls team around and Minisink’s Stefanie Dolson may be the biggest and most promising player fans will see all season  but it just won’t draw. It’s a shame.
On to my thoughts…
PEARL RIVER 55, LOURDES 45: No, reader Nick Bucci is not on my payroll. In fact, I picked his daughter’s team to lose so I’m glad he took it so well. But, yes, I did manage to almost call the score on this one. If only I was paid for correct picks…(I had it 59-48.)
Anyway, I was impressed with Lourdes improvement since the Scarsdale game. Much, much better. I don’t have a box score on me and I didn’t cover the game, but the Warriors bench chipped in often and did well. The unit helped them take an early lead they held at times throughout the first three quarters. However, what else can you say about Pearl River? The Pirates continue to take the court prepared to win basketball games. Lorraine Moylan is a great, great coach. Her players play with great poise and that’s a testament to how comfortable they are in what is asked of them. Kaitlyn O’Keefe, in particular, played very well today and helped Pearl River keep the score close until her teammates shots started falling in the second half.
MINISINK VALLEY 53, URSULINE 48: At 45-42 with 13 seconds left and the ball in Ursuline’s hands, I had the beginnings of a pretty smart night. But the Koalas let my prediction die in those final seconds. They had a turnover, a foul, missed the defensive rebound, let a shooter get free, and allowed two tying free throws. And that was in the final 13 seconds. Overtime wasn’t much better.
My reaction to all this? A little bit of disappointment. Beth Wooters felt a little more strongly, so upset about how her experienced players quaked under the pressure. Possibly, Ursuline can build from this, but it’ll be tough to stomach for a while. I’m interested to see how the consolation goes against Lourdes, in what now looks like an old school dream matchup at the County Center.
My championship prediction… Undoubtedly, I think Pearl River is the favorite tomorrow. Not only have the Pirates already beaten Minisink, I think they were probably much more hesistant about facing Lourdes, a team which has beaten them so many times in big games, including the 2006 Class A championship game. Without that hanging over them, I think the Pirates will overcome Dolson (20 points, 14 boards, 8 blocks vs. Ursuline) and her supporting cast. Conversely, I like Ursuline’s size in the consolation. O’Keefe for MVP, with Kerri Confrey, Dolson, and whoever stands out tomorrow for Ursuline and Lourdes (one apiece) for all-tournament.
Championship  PEARL RIVER 55, MINISINK VALLEY 50
Consolation  URSULINE 48, LOURDES 40
Let me know what you thought about tonight and who you like tomorrow.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, December 28th, 2006 at 9:26 pm by Josh Thomson. 
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Josh Thomson has done some of everything since joining The Journal News in March 2003. He began working for the Gannett weeklies during the winter of 2002 as a freelance writer. He joined the daily staff soon after and has since covered various high school and pro sports. Away from sportswriting, Josh lives in Westchester and spends his free time either with his fiancee, Sarah, or expertly managing his various championship-winning fantasy sports teams. He's visited 21 major-league baseball stadiums and insists that Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are the best by far. Josh graduated from Carmel High School in 1998, then went to Boston University, where, in 2002, he received a degree in communications with a minor in history.
Hey Josh thanks for mentioning our 69-20 whoopin after we got invited the year after we lost 4 starters and 8 seniors. By the way we hit the last basket, a three. Thanks again for opening up old wounds.
Tim…Sorry man, just trying to help everyone remember how good Mount Vernon was. Trust me, Maria wasn’t the only team to feel the pain. Ask Ursuline. Ask Ossining. Heck, you can even ask White Plains, who lost to Mount Vernon the night of the ‘04 Slam Dunk final.
Lourdes just isn’t what it used to be. The JV squad last year lost to Kingston and the talent level at Lourdes overall is still good, but not good enough. I wonder what excuses Lourdes apologists have now for their 1-3 record.
Dave , I knew you would come out of the woodwork sooner or later , yet refuse to let anyone know your team. I wonder why your hating on Lourdes so much. Ornamental grasses have the same calming effect as Hosta plants… Enjoy
Josh,
While I appreciate your looking into the WP women’s non-invite this year, the responses that you received from the tournament director are nothing short of amazing.
The fact that WP didn’t capture the title the past two years of the Slam Dunk cannot even be considered a flimsy reason to deny an invitation this year, since Our Lady of Lourdes or Ursuline also played the past two years and didn’t win it either, but they still got invited this year.
I could understand if Our Lady of Lourdes—a Dutchess County school—was the host and “sponsor” of a basketball tournament held at, let’s say, the Mid-Hudson Civic Center in their hometown of Poughkeepsie. But it is mind boggling to hear the director of a Westchester County tournament, hosted and advertised by local recreation officials and political figures as a Westchester County competition, proclaim that Our Lady of Lourdes—a Dutchess County school—gets an automatic bid to the sparsely fielded women’s field every year because they are a tournament “sponsor.”
This event is touted on the County Center’s website as being “presented” by the County and “sponsored” by the Journal News. What other undisclosed “sponsorship” is the tournament director talking about? What does it mean to be a double secret “sponsor”, and what fair minded or logical selection process designated a school two counties away to have this honor?
I have nothing against Lourdes, or Dutchess County for that matter, and had the women’s field been as big as the men’s side, we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion, as there would have been room enough for schools like North Rockland, White Plains or even Scarsdale—as well as the tournament “sponsor”—to participate.
But to limit the women’s field to only 4 teams and then deny admission to the White Plains team, a bona fide hometown team of a Westchester County tournament, and arguably still one of the best teams in the area, because of a flimsy reason or some double secret, unadvertised “sponsorship” means that something else is going on.
Westchester County officials might want to make some inquires about this ill conceived and poorly defended snub and/or perhaps re-think their association with this event.
Nick, the team I root for doesn’t matter. Besides, they are in no way affected by Lourdes. At least you didn’t blame the officials or anyone else for the loss. I’m just interested in this hosta plants and ornamental plant obsession you have. Why would I play with plants when it is so easy to aggravate you? Irrational parents are the best!
the lopsided slam dunk (in terms of boys vs girls teams and games) is just another example of the disrespect the girls get in every sport, not just basketball. as long as most of the A.D.s are men and as long as the tournaments are organized and run by men, it’s not going to change much. it’s great when you get a crowd like at last yr’s scarsdale vs new ro game, but that’s not going to happen often. what demello should have done is bite the bullet and had the same number of boys and girls teams and games, even if that meant he might not make as much money. that’s the only way things might begin to change. it’s not all about selling tickets and making money. if it was, the nba would never have sponsored the wnba. the nba has lost millions of dollars on the wnba…but they are making a statement that the girls can play at the pro level and they are not backing down from that position. we need to see more of that kind of guts in westchester county. lou—you did a great job opening up the westchester hawks aau club for the girls. now you need to get some equality back to the slam dunk tourney.
on vacation…what bothers me is that the disparity between boys and girls games on the officiating level too. I’ve noticed some officials won’t allow girls to block shots. Guys are swinging their arms like crazy to block shots and no call is made, but if a girl blocks a shot, a whistle is blown. And if you watch what head coaches in the boys games are allowed to do and get away with, and compare that to how coaches in the girls games act and are allowed to get away with, its two different worlds.
Dave , maybe you should be an official to show them how you would officiate, but you might have to wear an officials uniform to be identified and not hide behind your hating of successful programs. You must dislike the Yankees and the Mets for winning? or is the program you root for a LOSER!
I own a Plant business called “Hosta PLus” and I help people who hate winning teams (because theirs is a LOSER), destress over Majoring in Minors! Let me know the next time you officiate, I would enjoy your expertise. Readers would probably hee haw when they saw the stats of your Losing Team! Marigolds are great for keeping Mosquitos away!
Nick, you are a hypocrite…you state “Dave , maybe you should be an official to show them how you would officiate, but you might have to wear an officials uniform to be identified ”
Yet you blamed the officials along with an injury for the Lourdes loss against North Rockland. Now you are backing the officials huh? You are quite the two faced irrational parent, Nick. By the way, the Mets aren’t a winning program. As far as the losing program I am associated with, I am part of a quite successful program, my decision not to state for what program is mine and mine alone, you don’t have to like it, and frankly, I don’t care if you do.
Nick, Dave…As always I appreciate the comments. However, enough is enough. I have no problem with criticism, but at this point you guys are just bickering at each other. Let’s steer the conversation back in a more constructive direction. Please.
on vacation…No doubt about it, you are right on. The only way for the girls portion of the Slam Dunk to expand is to bite the bullet and eat some dough for ticket sales on the extra girls games. However, would a larger, more balanced tournament be more appealing to sponsors and the media covering the event? I’d guess yes.
timster…We can’t even begin to discuss your speculation here because it’s pure speculation. However, citing White Plains’ never winning the tournament is much flimsier than calling Lourdes the host. Yes, Lourdes is an hour to the north, but there was a time when it was the girls equivalent of the Mount Vernon boys, with a national schedule and D-I players galore. For perspective’s sake, just consider that the coach went from Lourdes to Marist  a high school to D-I jump coaches never ever make. Geographically, Lourdes as host makes no sense, but its status as the area’s best girls program is unquestioned. And that’s what the Slam Dunk is trying to represent.
Dave, Let’s talk credentials or are we going to use our freedom of speech act (which allows you to just voice your opinion). I have Played (Football, Basketball and Baseball)and Coached in Newburgh for severals years in football, basketball, softball, Adult women’s softball and more recently Gymnastics. My gymnastics teams won at every level and TWO State championships. My Adult women’s softball team won a State Championship. None of my teams have ever won without hard work and doing the extra. Don’t bash Lourdes or call people names! It’s all about the game and the kids.
Lourdes got to their level because on an average 24 Lourdes players have played AAU each year giving them between 30 -60 extra games (with 2 or 3 practices each week) in between their JV and Varsity seasons…doing the extra = success!
Josh,
I agree that Lourdes has had a fantastic run as a womens basketball powerhouse, and they may well continue that run this year and in future years at the AA level.
But I am talking about two factors—a limited women’s field that violates the spirit if not the law of Title IX (remember that County government funds are involved in this endeavor) and the secret designation of a school 50 miles and two counties away as a “host” school which earns them an automatic berth—that invariably shuts out Westchester County schools at a tournament billed, subsidized and advertised as a Westchester County event.
If the tournament director wants to name the event after himself or some other entity, invite whomever he wants and call schools that are 50 miles away a “host” school that is fine. However, I suspect that Westchester County officials would not bend over backwards to “present”, subsidize and advertise a basketball tournament that discriminates against our women athletes, allows a Dutchess County school to secure an automatic berth every year as the “host” school and snubs deserving Westchester County schools from participating.
My point is that as a Westchester County taxpayer and observer of area high school sports, I am offended that this blatantly unfair and possibly illegal arrangement is permitted to occur. Moreover, I am surprised that your newspaper looks the other way because of “gate loss” concerns or what amounts to misguided hero worship of a successful womens basketball program one hour to the north. I know you have championed women’s high school programs by covering them so faithfully, but your last response to my criticism amounts to nothing more than a “good ole boy” rejoinder, the kind that have been found to be inappropriate by most newspapers for some time now.
Nick, Lourdes got to their level for a variety of reason. One is because kids from 45 minutes to an hour away go to Lourdes instead of their local public school. Why don’t you list the different school districts this years players are from? If every school allowed top athletes from different districts to come to their school it would be an equal playing field, but it is not, public schools don’t have that option.
Lourdes also had the benefit of Brian Giorgis. Brian built Lourdes into a national power! He had tons of talent, but the man knows basketball, its incredible how much he knows, just look at what he’s done at Marist. It is no secret that the Lourdes teams the last few years have been sliding since he left. Like we have discussed before…Red Hook gave Lourdes a tough game!
I know the girls put in the extra effort and I know they are great students as well and I commend them. And its too bad Lourdes was short handed against Ursuline. I’m just glad they don’t conduct themselves like you do.
I played baseball, basketball, and football in high school, and I played one year of baseball in college. I’m not going to get into the personal successes I have because I am not here to brag, I have nothing to prove to you.
Timster…Our newspaper does not look the other way. In all honesty, I had never heard the public state its grieveances until this year’s Slam Dunk. Perhaps this forum has something to do with it, but I, and my fellow writers, have our email addresses and phone numbers in the paper every day and have heard nothing. I’ve never received one email one voice mail decrying the inequalities at the Slam Dunk. Now that everyone has responded, this can be a subject we can revisit in the future. Previously, fans seemed happy that six girls teams were already included.
The truth is, the Slam Dunk didn’t have a girls tournament for a long time, just one challenge game. Now there is a challenge game and a four-team tournament. Perhaps a full field is the next step, but progress definitely has been made. Not enough, but progress nonetheless. Should there be further progress? Yes. I, however, am not the tournament director. If I was, of course, the field would be terrific and wouldn’t include teams from Orange County or upstate New York. Lourdes, though, would be there. The program’s inclusion is far from hero worship: It is annually one of the best in New York state, getting to the final 4 as recently as last March.
My previous response was hardly “good ole boy.” I’m far too young to have good ole boy in me. Plus, I am the same person who wanted to have this blog here in the first place and wishes he could cover a girls basketball game every day of the week. I am the same person who is writing this response to you during the only three-day break I will have between now and July. Please do no loop me into a stereotype based on a few sentences that fail to provide you with the answers you seek. It’s unfair. Rip me for coverage all you want, but don’t unfairly cast me  or anyone else  with labels.
Everyone’s posts have been great. Lets keep them coming, just do not put down players, coaches or programs unfairly.
Josh,
Slam dunk 2006 was conducted, there were fine battles, the tournament is over and you are taking some deserved time off.
I do appreciate that you have nonetheless taken time to respond to my last posting, which was admittedly was somewhat pointed, particularly the “good ole boy” crack, for which I apologize.
But in an earlier post you seemed to defend—even if half heartedly—the deliberate imbalance between the size of the Slam Dunk women’s and men’s tournament draws, based upon concerns of scheduling difficulties and potential loss of gate revenue—the same reasons cited by Division I program directors (the real good ole boys, I suppose) who unsuccessfully opposed the passage of Title IX. However, I feel better about two things: taking back the good ole boy crack and your pronouncement that you now agree that full equalization of the men’s/women’s draw is in order.
I accept your representation that no one has previously complained about the imbalance and I submit that political beat writers and political beat junkies/bloggers might have seen the government sponsorship/participation angle and spotted this disparity sooner. As politically conscious as sports writers would like to think themselves to be, I would think that your first instinct is just to cover the darn game. However, if you are feeling sufficiently empowered, you can be the one to raise this issue to the tournament director when the fields are assembled for 2007. And you can rightfully thank your blog for getting this gripe aired.
The other issue which came out of this whole flap—one which started with a rather innocent question (how some area schools were slighted in the selection process)—and one which you have sidestepped to a certain extent, is the revelation that, for reasons unknown, Lourdes has been granted “favorite daughter” or “host” status with an automatic berth to the WESTCHESTER COUNTY Slam Dunk tournament.
So that I don’t get labeled as someone who would “put down coaches, players or programs unfairly” (though I don’t think I have), let’s not “pick our toes in Poughkeepsie” for a moment. If someone announced that the Mount Vernon men’s team is the “host” team for the Westchester County Slam Dunk tournament, and gets an automatic berth every year, who could argue—they are an unquestioned, perennial powerhouse and they are based in WESTCHESTER COUNTY.
Lourdes satisfies the powerhouse requirement for the women’s’ program, but they are a DUTCHESS COUNTY team and should be given the same status – and no more – as any other out of County team (if they are good, they are a candidate for invitation), and be placed in the same standing as any of the out of County teams that were invited this year (Minisink, Pearl River) or in years past (like St. John the Baptist from last year).
Stubbornly maintaining that “Lourdes would be there” if you were calling the shots to invite teams simply because they went to the final four last year ably supports their invitation this year as a qualified out of County guest. BUT IT FAILS TO JUSTIFY THEIR AUTOMATIC INCLUSION to a WESTCHESTER COUNTY tournament sponsored, advertised, supported and “presented” by the Westchester County government at a Westchester County facility and given assistance (directly or indirectly, it is there to be sure) by Westchester County taxpayers and sports fans.
If this tournament just rented out space at some random Westchester facility (how about the Purchase College gym) and took care of all sponsorship, organization, facilitation and advertising responsibilities without a nickel of County money, a minute of County employee time or a square inch of County owned real estate, they would have unbridled discretion to award automatic berths to any team or successful program, from Lourdes all the way up to Monroe County’s Rush Henrietta.
But in this WESTCHESTER County sponsored and supported tournament, the heretofore secret “host”/automatic berth status for Dutchess County’s Lourdes program is a major reason why 3 out of 4 teams in this year’s women’s draw were from counties other than Westchester, and why many deserving teams from Westchester (White Plains, Scarsdale, Lakeland and Briarcliff, just to name a few) were left out in the cold.
No matter how you slice it, that is just plain wrong for Westchester County high schools and their sports fans, and I am perplexed that you have not addressed my specific complaint: not that Dutchess County’s Lourdes is here this year or last year, but the fact that someone has deigned that they will be here at our WESCHESTER COUNTY tournament as a “host� school EVERY year.
You can have the last word on this if you would like to respond. Either way, happy New Year and have fun covering the second half of the girls basketball season.
To: Dave Sanderson, this is late but I had to laugh at the ridiculous analogy that you have made in the comment dated Dec. 29,2006 @ 5:23pm. You have stated that the Lourdes JV team lost to the Kingston team last year. Are you insulting the new talent on the Lourdes Varsity team? Yes, you are correct they lost by 1 basket, BUT, what you do not know is that the Kingston JV coach (last year) was the Lourdes JV’s leading scorer’s AAU coach. The Kingston team was comprised of players from 2 of the coach’s AAU teams.His AAU team, including Rachel Crittenden from Lourdes, won the Metropolitian district 14U AAU championship in 2005 and went on to Nationals that year.The Kingston Coach and his team knew how to shut down Lourdes post player Rachel Crittenden, he held her to 13 points that game, he knew she was averaging well above that both for him and on the Lourdes team. Do your research before you start insulting the Lourdes talent. When this Lourdes Varsity team starts playing as a team, Rachel will help them through to State level. As will all of the other talented girls on the Lourdes TEAM!
Next, your Dec. 30th comment: “allowing top athletes from different districts to come to their schools”. Think about this logically, the majority of the kids on the Varsity sports teams at Lourdes, including Girls Basketball, attended Catholic Grammer schools (K-8)? Where do they go from there?...Catholic High School. Also, in most public schools, girls that are at grade level 7 and 8 can play up and be on JV or Varsity Basketball 2 years before any of the Catholic grammer school kids. By doing this they gain more experience, than that of the CYO travel team players(Catholic Grammer School’s team). When playing up at public schools, they are playing with stronger more experienced kids at a younger age.This only makes them stronger. The Public schools have the advantage. Now…can you defend this fact? I personally know , because of my profession, that there are several parents who obtain residences for PUBLIC SCHOOLS (when living outside the district) including: Arlington, Red Hook, Beacon, (should I go on…)by renting or purchasing apartments so that their children can attend the top Public schools for baseball, soccer, basketball, etc. This goes on more than you will see a so-called “recruited” girl for Lourdes High School’s basketball program. Get over yourself…listen to Nick, try the Hostas Plant, or better yet since you seem to be the “athletic type” Yoga is good for the mind….
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